[rec.music.makers.saxophone] Frequently Asked Questions Originally Written by Mike Wells. Maintained by Bob R. Kenyon. (Last modified Monday, April 07, 1997) This page has been hit 8221 times since 19 November 1996. Two other version of this FAQ are available: [msword icon] Microsoft Word 6.0 zipped (112k) [bbedit icon] Plain text (190k) The Word document is somewhat out of date, and will not be updated until I figure out an easy way of doing it. The plaintext file is an exact copy of these pages. Mike's original comments: Material from the newsgroup is used in the spirit of a usenet archive. Also, as I am English I have used British spelling. Rule Britannia. ;) Also, please note that comments submitted by readers of the group, and which are quoted in their entirety, or nearly so, are set aside in block quotes to separate them from the background commentary. In addition, if you have any suggestions or additional material to add, please contact me. Thanks, Bob R. Kenyon IMPORTANT NOTICE: THE MATERIAL IN THIS DOCUMENT REMAINS THE COPYRIGHT OF THE AUTHORS AND THOSE WHO ARE QUOTED. REPRODUCTION IN ANY FORM OTHER THAN FOR PERSONAL USE IS PROHIBITED SAVE BY EXPLICIT PERMISSION. Index * 0.0 rec.music.makers.saxophone/alt.music.saxophone Administrative FAQ * 1.1 Introduction to the FAQ * 1.2 The newsgroup, alt.music.saxophone * 1.3 Adding to this document * 2.1 Baritone, Tenor, Alto, Soprano * 2.2 Buying a saxophone - the Saxophone Buyers' Guide * 2.3 Accessories - stands, maintenance, pad savers etc. * 2.4 Reeds - strengths and preferences * 2.5 Altissimo notes - fingerings * 2.6 The Mouthpiece Exercise * 2.7 Special effects - growling, vibrato, slurs * 2.8 Mouthpieces and tip openings * 2.9 Listening to music (also, `Kenny G') * 2.10 Selmer saxophones - Mark VIs * 2.11 Improvisation * 2.12 Circular breathing * 2.13 Books and publications * 2.14 The Ten Steps Guide * 2.15 Sight Reading * 2.16 Transcribing Solos * 2.17 Embouchure Control * 2.18 Famous Sax Players' Setups * 2.19 Improving your speed * 3.1 World Wide Web Sites and resources * 3.2 Acknowledgments Back to Bob's Home Page Last modified Monday, April 07, 1997 This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] Welcome to rec.music.makers.saxophone and alt.music.saxophone! These two newsgroups are inhabited by (more or less) the same people, and you can reach them by posting to either or (preferably) both by "cross-posting" to both. This posting is essentially administrative in nature. It explains why this situation has come about, recommends specific posting practices, and explains how to set about "cross- posting" your saxophone-related message so that it reaches the widest appropriate audience. An extended FAQ answering many questions relevant to the saxophone and its music is maintained by Bob Kenyon . It is available on the World Wide Web at http://www.rahul.net/rrk/saxfaq/. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following questions are answered here: Q.1 Why are there two saxophone newsgroups? Q.2 Which newsgroup should I post to? Q.3 How do I set about "cross-posting" my message? Q.4 My site doesn't receive r.m.m.s/a.m.s/either group. What can I do? Q.5 My site won't or can't receive either group. Are there any public access news servers? Q.6 Do I have to read this document every few weeks? Q.7 Who is responsible for this document? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q.1 Why are there two saxophone newsgroups? A.1 alt.music.saxophone was formed in 1994 and quickly became a lively and successful newsgroup community. However, the "alt" hierarchy is not as widely propagated as the standard Usenet ones (comp, news, rec &c.). Some organisations operate a blanket ban on "alt" groups, citing reasons such as the volume of binaries, copyright violations, objection to the topics covered (e.g. sex, drugs and rock'n'roll!), or simply its lack of organisation. For some time, potential readers at such sites were unable to participate in saxophone discussions, and related newsgroups received regular enquiries from would-be readers seeking access. During the spring of 1996, the readers of a.m.s decided to form a more "official" group with a view to moving all discussion to that forum in due course, and r.m.m.s was formed following due process. However, even though it should be more acceptable to system managers than the alt group, r.m.m.s does not yet propagate throughout all of Usenet, and as a result we have two newsgroups dealing with the saxophone. Both newsgroups are available to a large common core of readers, but there are some sites which receive only one or other group. The following posting guidelines are suggested in order to maintain the cohesion of the Usenet saxophone community during this period of transition. Q.2 Which newsgroup should I post to? A.2 The relevance of this question depends on whether your newsreading software allows cross-posting. If your software allows "cross-posting", please post new messages and follow-ups to *both* groups using the instructions in A.3. Note that you can probably cross-post to both groups even though you may be able to read only one of them. If your software does not allow you to "cross-post", and you have access to only one group, post in that group. If you have access to both groups but your software prevents you from cross-posting, post on the "official" group rec.music.makers.saxophone. Consider carefully before making an additional post to alt.music.saxophone. Remember that most of the readers of that group will see your message on r.m.m.s. Q.3 So how do I set about "cross-posting" my message? A.3 It's all quite simple, really! Start by giving your usual "post a new message" command. Then, look at the 'header' lines (either at the top of your post, or in a separate sub-window), and make sure that both groups are named on the header line which begins "Newsgroups: ". In its standard format, the line should look either like this ... Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.saxophone,alt.music.saxophone or Newsgroups: alt.music.saxophone,rec.music.makers.saxophone Note that there is normally a space after the colon, but none between the newsgroup names. However, a few newsreaders impose their own, different, format -- in other words, your mileage may vary ... If you are replying to someone else's message and both your and their software is working well, the "Newsgroups: " line should automatically be filled in properly, so the issue of 'cross-posting' need only be of major concern when you are starting a new thread. Nevertheless, it is always a good idea to check that the Newsgroups: line is properly set when replying to other posters. If either group is missing, simply add its name as indicated above. If there is a Followup-To: line amongst the headers, it should either be empty, or list the same groups as the Newsgroups: line, in the same format. If there isn't a Followup-To: line, don't worry about it. Since it is possible to do some rather anti-social things by editing header lines, some newsreaders prevent users from changing things in this way. If that's the case, you may have a newsreader which can't cross-post. Chances are that it's lacking in quite a few other features, too, so if you are planning on reading much news, you might consider changing over to some industrial-strength software such as rn/xrn/trn or nn (unix), NewsWatcher or MacSoup (Mac) or .... (....) Q.4 My site doesn't receive r.m.m.s/a.m.s/either group. What can I do? A.4 You should contact the person who maintains the news system at your site. In principal, this person should be available at an address like usenet@your.site.goes.here. Otherwise postmaster@your.site should be able to tell you how to contact the news adminstrator. (BTW -- It is conceivable that there is no-one administering the system. Modern news software is very reliable, and there are an increasing number of sites which are, in effect, running on autopilot. Not a good idea, but it happens.) Once you have located the adminstrator, ask him politely to issue a local newgroup message to form the missing group. ('Politely', because in many organisations, running the Usenet system is considered a low-priority or voluntary task, and is more tolerated than encouraged by management). The admin can determine whether articles are being propagated to your site by examining the news logs (specifically, the history file). If they are not being received, she may have to make special arrangements with upstream sites so that they also carry the group, and to some extent you are also at the mercy of those admins, too. It is possible that your request for the group will be rejected on grounds such as those indicated in A.1. Unless you are in a position to change policy, your only alternatives are to buy private Internet access from another source or to use one of the public access news services. Q.5 My site won't or can't receive either group. Are there any public access news servers? A.5 There are a number of sites which are willing to supply news to all comers, and in principal all you need to do is to point your newsreader software at the relevant site. These include sites such as zippo.com, (which also offers an added-value subscription service), and pubnews.demon.co.uk. Alternatively, you may be able read news over the World Wide Web. One major archive of Usenet postings can be found and searched via http://www.dejanews.com/ but Dejanews did (?does) not include alt postings, so you may only be able to access r.m.m.s in this way. You can also find recent news via http://www.altavista.digital.com/ AltaVista does have copies of postings to a.m.s, although their record for news as a whole does not go as far back as Dejanews'. Zippo's archives are also available via http://www.zippo.com/ A note of warning: Some organisations have a policy on use of Internet facilities, and connecting to public access sites such as those listed above may be in breach of that policy, with possible disciplinary consequences. In a few cases, these policies are enforced by barring connection to the sites, and it is not possible to gain access to them. Q.6 Do I have to read this document every few weeks? A.6 No, it is intended for new and occasional readers of the saxophone newsgroups. Use your newsreader's "kill file" capability to "kill" all articles with the title "FAQ : posting guidelines for saxophone newsgroups". If your newsreader doesn't have a kill file facility, consider upgrading to an industrial-strength model; see A.3 for a few suggestions. Q.7 Who is responsible for this document? A.7 It was prepared by Russ Evans (mailto: russ@seismo.demon.co.uk) Constructive criticism, praise and a Selmer S80 Series III soprano at a knock-down price are all welcome! Version 0.2 (draft) of 02 Feb 97. Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 1.1 Introduction to the FAQ This is a deliberately an unassuming FAQ which does not claim to solve the world's problems or give you a fantastic insight into the world of saxophony and musicianship. The idea of most FAQs, as with this one, is to reduce the number of simple questions which can be quickly answered being posted in the newsgroup. It's not that these questions aren't welcome (far from it) - it's hoped that this FAQ can solve some of the basics for you though, and lead on to more detailed discussion. The material in this document is largely aimed at new users of alt.music.saxophone (and rec.music.makers.saxophone), but even if you're just passing through you may find some helpful snippets of information in amongst the rest. Like most FAQs this one is constantly growing! Back to Index [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 1.2 The newsgroup, alt.music.saxophone (and rec.music.makers.saxophone) alt.music.saxophone (and rec.music.makers.saxophone) is a special group with a solid core of expert musicians who are as helpful as you could hope for. There's a friendly and light atmosphere in all of the discussions, and even some of the flames. If you want to get a feel for the group quickly, just turn back the clock on your news server files and have a quick scan through a week's postings. After that you should be able to see that intelligent postings get helpful replies, while over-demanding or ungraceful questions (and all the usual sins of the usenet) get nothing much at all. If you are a beginner, read this document first and then post. If you're an experienced sax player with only a little net knowledge, don't worry - we're tolerant! If you're a sax wizard who's constantly on the net, you probably don't need much of a warm up to get into the swing of things. :-) Just for interests sake, I recently conducted a survey in the newsgroup which revealed the following statistics: (June 1996) Thanks very much for all your replies to the survey. I have received no more replies in the last few days so I am releasing the results - partly, I must say, because the trends are so strong that there isn't much need for more than the the fifty three replies I did get. I hope you find this information interesting: * 36% play Soprano * 64% play Alto * 68% play Tenor * 23% play Baritone * 9% play C-Melody * On average, the reader of ams plays two different types of saxophone. However, nearly 90% of respondants also play at least one other type of instrument, with 20% playing three or more other instruments! * 36% of the saxes used by ams readers are made by Selmer. The next most popular make is Yamaha with 27%. Eight other brands each contributed less than 10% each. The least popular brand was 'Riviera', with just one respondant. Sorry for being invidio us, but how about some more info on this horn, that man? * 17% of readers classified themselves as beginners. * 38% are amateurs. * 25% are semi-professional (one reader claimed 'quarter-professional'!) * 8% are students of saxophony. * 13% of readers are professional sax players. * When it comes to musical tastes, 56% of you agreed that jazz was your main field. 15% like contemporary, same for classical (ie. same figure in each case), 11% preferred pop music or rock, and only 3% preferred marching band music. I must point ou t that this may be unfairly weighted as I did not provide a long list of options. * 41% of readers have been with us since day 1. Golden clocks will be posted later. 27% have been reading for around 6 months (slightly less have been reading for around 3 months), while 14% have joined the newsgroup within the last month. * The most popular reed is Rico Royals, with 25% of respondants using these reeds. Vandoren are used by 22% of readers. The remaining brands/variations mentioned (Rico, Fibracell, Hemke, Plasticover, V16, Java, Lavoz, Bari, Guardala, Glotin and Buffet and some others) each received a small fraction of the total. Plasticover were the least popular with only 2% of replies using these reeds. * The most popular reed strength is a very average 3, with 46% of readers using this strength (independent of size of instrument, brand or whatever). 17% use a 2 while 18% use a 2.5. 16% use a reed harder than a 3, while only one reader uses a soft (1 ) reed. The only statistic I cannot summarise is the mouthpiece. You use such a lurid selection of different brands that the sample was too fractionated to make sense. I can say that the most popular mouthpiece tip opening was a 7*, ie. .100 inches. The major ity of professionals replying had more than 3 mouthpieces. Just to try and sum up what I have read in all your replies, I would say that the average reader of alt.music.saxophone plays a Selmer tenor sax, with a Rico Royal 3 reed on a 7* mouthpiece. He dabbles with a cheap/no-name soprano and also plays alto with the same or slightly different reed/mouthpiece setup as the tenor. He plays keyboard and is known to have played around with the clarinet and guitar. He is an amateur who enjoys jazz most but is not uninterested in classical music and other genres, a nd has been reading the newsgroup for about nine months. I hope this is amusing for you to mull over! Thanks for all your replies! Mike Wells Onward... Back to Index [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 1.3 Adding to this document This whole document is a patchwork of opinions and other sources. I don't want it to represent just a monologue of what I think, because opinions differ and need to be contrasted all the time for a balanced view of things. If you want to add anything at all to the FAQ, or even point out a mistake (there are bound to be some) please just email me and the next revision will be produced. I am not a pro so please don't feel like there could be nothing more to say! Mike Wells Note: Since Mike has moved on, please don't bother sending mail to him. Please send it to Bob Kenyon. Thanks! Temporary notice: Quotes which aren't credited to the authors! Please claim your works and I'll add your contact address. Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.1 Baritone, Tenor, Alto, Soprano To the musically minded, these are all different pitches on the musical scale. A baritone is lower in pitch than tenor, alto is higher than tenor, soprano is higher than alto. The saxes corresponding to these sizes are essentially the same instrument, but they do look very different. A baritone sax is a big instrument! Soprano, on the other hand, doesn't really look like a sax at all when you first see one. They look more like metal clarinets, when they are the common straight versions. Alto and tenor saxes are by far the most popular. You can identify the saxes using this comparative process: Is the crook (the tube leading to the mouthpiece) straight, hump-backed, curly or indistinguishable from the body of the sax? The latter case describes a soprano, while a straight crook is the shape for an alto. A hump-backed crook is a tenor, while the curly crook is a baritone. The size of the instrument is also quite telling, if you're not sure. The tenor is substantially larger than alto, for example. An alto is generally played in front of the body, while a tenor hangs by your side. I was recently informed that some military bands have the alto played by the side, and accordingly some alto saxes have been designed slightly differently. You may like to ask harri.rautiainen@tele.inet.fi for more information on this point. Why the different sizes? Well, even though they have the same fingerings and can play notes from low Bb to high F#, the registers are very different, and the tone is noticeably altered from one to the next. Remember that saxophones are transposing instruments: soprano and tenor are Bb instruments, with soprano being one octave higher than tenor. Baritone and alto are both Eb instruments. This means that if you play a C on a saxophone, the note which a pianist would play to match your note would either be a Bb or Eb, depending on the sax. This is quite a common thing in orchestras: clarinets, trumpets, horns, double-reed instruments and the likes all have to have music written appropriately to make them sound the correct notes. The background to this is historical, but it does for instance mean that you can buy a tutorial book written for `saxophone' and it will be applicable to all of the different sizes. Accompanying instruments will have to transpose if you don't, however. The sounds you can get from these saxes, and their capabilities are intrinsically different - choosing which to play is difficult for a novice. To some extent you might need to think about your lips and embouchure (lip muscles) and then choose: Tenor saxophone is reputed to be the easiest to start on, but by no means the easiest to master. It has a versatile and rich tone when played skillfully, and needs a firm embouchure suited to most mouths. Altos require more lip control, having a more piercing but very expressive tone, again accessible to most mouths, while baritones are a little slower because of their size and mechanisms. A loose embouchure can make these a good choice if you're not able to get to grips with the smaller saxes. They can be played solo or as a bass instrument. You can, generally, start sax on any of these instruments, and eventually they become interchangeable with practise. You are not limiting yourself by playing only one sax to begin with (remember, the fingerings are the same - it's the mouthpiece which will need practise when changing). You may be happy with just one size of sax, moreover. Many players would agree with you. The only sax which cannot be taken up by any right-minded beginner is the soprano: these are noticeably more difficult to play, requiring much more airstream control. In general, an alto is a better foundation at first if soprano is what you aspire to. Sopranos are a prize in themselves, though, and have a melodic tone which is hard to match with other saxes. One last thing; more types of sax do exist. Sopranino is the smallest sax (and quite unusual) while bass saxes are available in some places. They are huge, but if it's not enough for you to own a bass, try looking for a contra-bass...very few remain in existence, but contra-bass needs elephant lungs to play and an 18-wheeler for transport. :-) Also, there are C-Melody or C-Tenor saxes, which are not transposing instruments. They are not in common use and can be difficult to get parts and reeds for. If you need a C-Melody mouthpiece, contact John Myatt woodwind as detailed under part 2.3. A chart of saxophone ranges (from Michel van Assendelft) Type Pitch Concert pitch Frequency Range (A-440) range Hz Sopranino Eb Db1-Ab3 277-1661 Soprano C B-F3 233-1396 Soprano Bb Ab-Eb3 207-1244 (1318) Alto Eb Db-Ab (A) 138-830 (880) Tenor C B-F 116-698 Tenor Bb Ab-Eb (E) 103-622 (659) Baritone Eb Db (C) - Ab1 69 (65) - 415 Bass Bb Ab1-Db1 51-277 Contrabass Eb Db1-Ab 34-207 Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.2 Buying a saxophone - the Saxophone Buyers' Guide I refer you here to the very well-written and comprehensive Saxophone Buyers' Guide, written by Jason Dumars. It can be found on the International Saxophone Homepage at http://www.saxophone.org. I have a copy which I can forward to you if this is a problem. On the same page you can find a company called USA Horn, who sell saxophones over the internet. This company has quite a solid reputation and may well be a good starting place if you are an experienced buyer. They say about th emselves: "USA HORN, one of the few dealers that has earned the trust and respect of players around the World, if you have any specific horns you are seeking just contact us via email at usahorn@travelin.com" Back to Index [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.3 Accessories - stands, maintenance, pad savers etc. This is not an exhaustive list! Slings (straps). Saxes can be heavy if you're playing all night or play baritone. A sling needs to be wide (not less than 3cm) and preferably be padded. It's also to your advantage to get an quick attachment which will not scratch around the eye on the sax. Whatever does it for you. If you're experienced you may like to get an elastic strap, which will give a little bit more support and help with weight distribution. There are several versions of this design around. Be aware that they are NO use if you're in a marching band! Harnesses exist if you find the sling idea unsuitable. UK address for soft slings: John Myatt Woodwind 57 Nightingale Road Hitchin Herts SG5 1RQ UNITED KINGDOM Tel. +44 1462 420057 £17 plus shipping. I have one of these slings and find it extremely relaxing compared to a stiff version. The above supplier also sells standard straps for slightly less, and harnesses. At this point I would like to make an addition (June 1996) of another supplier. John Myatt Woodwind are well-established and reputable, but just recently I have had some very positive indeed dealings with Bill McNaughton Woodwind (again in the UK). This particular sax dealer is incredibly helpful and very friendly on the 'phone, as well as honest about his suppliers and stock availability. More to the point, I have not been able to find a cheaper source for any sax or accessory. As well as volunteering approval sales and being very genial, Bill McNaughton Woodwind are exceptionally good value. This, you might say, is a plug, but it is unsolicited. I feel that mail order saxophone buying could not be done better, and that's the truth! Here's the address and number: Bill McNaughton Woodwind No. 37 Forbes Building Linthorpe Road Middlesbrough Cleveland, UK. Tel. 01642 231428 As the majority of readers are in America, here is another address: The Saxophone Shop LTD. 2834 Central Street Evanston, IL 60201 One other thing about slings. In my experience, the sling positioning can be much more important than you might think. When adjusting the strap try to get the mouthpiece positioned such that you do not need to move your head to reach it. This will often cure tone problems! Cork grease. The cork where you attach the mouthpiece is important and needs to be a solid seal which won't leak. This is kept in good shape with cork grease. This is a very simple compound of waxy or oily substances which should be cheap but usually gets sold at a premium in music shops. With certain exceptions, you should be able to use any fairly viscous liquid which doesn't corrode the cork or dissolve the glue. Petroleum based substances should be avoided. Lip balms are just fine. Pad savers. These are a useful accessory, like a long furry pipe cleaner. They are left in the instrument while it is being stored to dry the condensation formed during playing sessions (especially in dry air). This is very important because the pads on your sax will rot if you don't take care to dry up inside the instrument. Many players overlook this simple device but it is the easiest way to add years to your sax's life! Pad savers are sized for the sax in question (S,A,T,B), and can also be bought for the crook. The main body pad savers work best if they are tapered as you can half insert them and rotate while pressing the keys which have damp pads (eg. the palm keys) to get them properly dry. You can get them for mouthpieces, but pulling a simple cloth is entirely adequate instead, before you put the mouthpiece away. Note that pad savers will get damp if you don't let them dry out from time to time, and will start to do more harm than good. If you don't like pad savers you can get `pull-throughs' which are chamois leather cloths on a long piece of weighted string. They're not quite as effective. Note also that if you buy a pad saver, it's not a bad idea to thoroughly wash it before use to get rid of loose fibres which could get inside your sax. Oils, powders and maintenance materials. These are all quite useful if your sax has stiff or ineffective joints which need reviving. I wouldn't recommend trying to clean a sax with oils, though, as the key system is complex and you will not be able to wipe it all away thoroughly. It will then collect dust. Powders for the pads can help if the keys seem sticky, but it's far better to get them cleaned up properly in the long run. In general I advise you not to be caught out by maintenance materials: you could spend a fortune lining manufacturers' pockets and not really achieve much. Just look after your sax, and use a soft cloth to wipe away saliva before storage. Metal cleaners will not help for the same reasons that oil is not much use. Most saxes are lacquered, too, which will not take to harsh cleaners! A high quality soft cloth is the best tool you can get to look after the appearance of your sax, while a pad saver will keep the mechanisms working. Bent rods and other physical damage should be referred to a good repair shop. "After I play the alto, I run a spit cloth through the body (without the neck or mouthpiece) Then, I run a slightly damp paper towel through the mouthpiece, to get the cruddies out. (don't leave a reed on any horn, it makes it turn yucky, and a funky fungus grows in the mouthpiece) When the neck needs cleaning, rub the inside, only the first few centimeters with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol. For tenor, bari and bass, I have found that wiping the top part of the sax, where the neck fits in usually works best. The spit cloth seems to get stuck on an opening, or lost inside the body. The neck and mouthpiece cleaning is about the same, only you might be able to fit the spit cloth through the neck. Straight sopranos can be cleaned like a clarinet. I suppose C-melodies can be cleaned like altos, and I have no idea how to clean a curved soprano." Stands. Invaluable when you're out gigging. Some manufacturers are good enough to include a clarinet (or soprano) peg on the same stand, which is very handy. Baritones will require a bigger stand so make sure you specify if you're mail ordering. Reed holders. These are very useful! If your reeds are going wavy or getting broken, get a reed holder. Good ones should hold the reed flat in storage, preventing most warping. Vandoren reeds ship with a reed holder as standard (bargain!). Some luxury holders even have a humidity control in with them to keep your reed from getting damp. Typically, you can get reed holders for one, two or four reeds. Mouthpiece patches. These are a sort of rubbery shock absorber which you stick onto the top of your mouthpiece where your teeth usually go. I have recently taken to using these and have found them quite a useful accessory. Here's Miles' view: "I highly recommend playing with mouthpiece patches for three important reasons: 1. comfort from vibration on teeth from hard rubber and especially metal mouthpieces. 2. protection on the beak of the mouthpiece from teethmarks 3. (probably most important) helps open throat cavity. Actually, I can't play on any mouthpiece without at least one patch (I usually build up two or three - which helps the opening of the throat). It just takes getting use to." - Miles Osland mosax@concentric.net Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.4 Reeds - strengths and preferences This is the most contentious subject of all when sax players get together. Why does one reed perform better than another? If you're a new player, you may find it hard to understand what all the fuss is about. The fact is that almost all reeds are flawed at production because cane is organic. They often need adjusting with files, sand paper or a knife. I will quickly summarise a few ideas here in a second, but this is a topic you are better advised to get experience with, rather than taking anyone's word for it. A reed can last anything from a few days to a year. Typically, six weeks. This snippet goes a long way to explaining why it's not so easy to say: "Reeds last as long as they sound sweet - sometimes a few days, sometimes a couple of months, but that length of time is pushing it if you are playing to an audience. Lack of tone - harshness - should tell you when. You already buy by the box, which is a good move, as reed will often vary by +/- 30 % in hardness within a box - so chose the best one. Not all will work 1st time, but don't discard the others, for on another day you will find they work quite well. When higher notes are hard to play, it is certainly time to change the reed for a new one, or it may be time to move to a harder reed. I always have a few a half grade different for those days my lips are tired. You didn't say what mouthpiece you use - as it is the correct combination of the two that works best in the end. Experiment - but don't stay too long on a stale reed. This is also a health warning! An old reed will start to grow bugs, as it has been wet, and probably left to dry out in open air. Analogy: would you put the same fork in your mouth for two months without washing it?" A reed should be symmetrical, uniform and smooth. Use emery cloth or fine sandpaper to get a smooth finish without taking too much wood off (as little as possible). Soak the reed overnight when you buy it if you can as this will make it more responsive before playing. When you hold the reed up to strong light you should be able to see a heart of wood in the centre which tapers toward the tip and the sides. More than likely, it's all streaks and uneven (most reeds are). You can sand the offending areas down carefully, but don't go too far - too little is better than too much. Test the reed frequently when you sand it. If a reed is too soft you can clip the end using purpose made clippers and hope for the best. This is not really a great solution but if you're short of reeds it may save you for a gig! If the reed's too hard sand it carefully on the flat face until you like it. Do this on a solid, flat surface. Remember that the tip will become thinner and you may spoil the reed if you're not careful. If the reed is too difficult to play in the bass register, scrape nearest the steep part at the back of the reed (symmetrically) until you are happy with the sound. Don't take off much. If the middle register is stuffy, thin the top third of the reed down. The tip can be reduced a little in thickness to get a better staccato response as well as upper register sound, while the top octave can be made more responsive by shaving away a little bit from each side of the reed about half way to the heart. Get more advice if you can from a teacher, and let them show you how. You can usually tell when a reed is `bad' as the resistance and purity will tend to get harder to control. Reeds come in various strengths and styles, most commonly from 1 (soft) to 6 (hard) and usually in steps of halves. A soft reed will be unreliable, quiet and short-lived...but it'll be much easier to play for a novice. A medium reed (e.g. 3) is the most common reed for players to use, and will be consistent and responsive, as well as richer in tone than a soft reed. A harder reed such as a 5 will be much more difficult to play. With certain exceptions, a reed this hard will not sound better than a medium reed, and may actually be the sign of a lacking mouthpiece. If you've always played a 5, you are probably used to it and enjoying it. If you're thinking about using 5s, you're probably ready for a more open mouthpiece (see 2.8). These reeds do last a long time, and are louder, but they will be far more difficult to play bass notes on. Pitch bending and so on will be harder, and your embouchure will need to be much firmer to get them to play. Most players are using reeds between 2.5 and 3.5 - be aware that it is wrong to try and get onto the higher reed strengths as a mark of progress. A reed should match your style. It's no embarrassment to play a soft reed if that's how it is for you. You might spoil your tone if you use too hard a reed. Note that Vandoren reeds are half-a-strength more than their Rico equivalent, except Javas which are normal. Hemke are slightly stronger, too. If you're starting out on sax, review your reed strength frequently, and progress onto the right strength for you (and your mouthpiece) on advisement or when you feel ready. Don't go too fast. Choosing the reed is an important factor in your tone. There are generally two different types of reed, American and French. The American types are used in classical arrangements and in marching bands, having a broader and more open sound. Rico make such reeds, and they are perfectly functional in all sorts of situation. A more popular contemporary and jazzy sound is the French reed, with a thicker heart and warmer, rounded tone. Vandoren are the usual manufacturer of these reeds, with Rico Royals being close in design. Other manufacturers include LaVoz, Guardala, Hemke, Bari...etc. A few other reed-related ideas follow: "As a beginner saxophonist I've found the fibrecell reed (soft) with an ottolink super tone master (7*) is the ideal reed for my sax(Vito). They have a little edge to the tone and they are ready to play at any time (no soaking needed for me). And with proper care they last." "1) When I'm playing Rico Royals (tenor and bari) I buy them by the box and simply set down for an hour and play the reeds one by one, sorting them into good, bad, and so-so reeds. The good ones (usually 2-4 in a box of 10) go immediately in my reed holder, where I rotate 4 good reeds. The bad ones go into a tin to look at later and the so-so ones go back in the box for another playing some other time. Periodically, when I'm bored, I go through the mediocre and bad reed boxes, and I'll find perhaps 1 in 10 that really was a good reed after all. The confirmed bad reeds go into the trash can. 2) When I'm playing Vandorens (soprano), I sort through reeds at the store and select reeds that have a symmetric profile - that is, I look at the butt and the cut of the reeds for clean, even curves. I look for a slightly yellow color and stick my thumbnail into the reed to check its resilience. After I've picked out a half dozen or so I take them home and go through the same process outlined in 1." From Richard Corpolongo: REED PREPARATION How many times have you gone to your performance in a recital or an engagement thinking that the reeds you just worked on at home will respond perfectly but didn't? I bet the number is incalculable. The reason why reeds seemingly work great in your practice room and do not work at the performance hall is because both are acoustically different rooms, different temperatures and usually made of different materials. One reed could sound fantastic in one and sound dull and lifeless in the other. The answer is to bring all the better performing reeds that you pick out in your practice room to the area that you are going to perform in. Pick out two or more reeds that sound full and vibrant. Because there is usually enough time for a warm-up session in the hall before a performance, the problem of not being able to try out a number of reeds is zero. If the reeds need to be fixed in some way work on the reeds in the room. The reeds have to be as player ready as possible when you get there. They have to be moist enough to play and be worked on in either a dry or acoustically dead room. There is a way of raising the percentage of playable reeds by reducing the amount of preparation. Go to any grocery store and purchase some type of spice jar, preferably a McCormick plastic one. Any small plastic jar, possibly a pill bottle that can hold ten reeds will do as well. Purchase a reed knife and reed clipper from any woodwind store. Buy a curved tooth file from any home builders type store. A fine checker file will work almost as well if a curved tooth file can't be found. Place about ten brand new reeds tip down, right from the box and never been played in the jar. Fill the jar just above the top of the reeds with filtered water. Tap water has too many chemicals in it and can interfere with the soaking process. Let the reeds soak for 24 hours. The next day play each reed about 2 to 3 minutes. Check each reed for over-all feel, hardness, ease of playing and sound production. The reeds that play pretty well without any major repair should be numbered with an indelible marker from 1-10, 1 being the best. They in turn are placed in a reed case to dry naturally. The reeds that did not work after being soaked go into another reed case to be dried and stored to be worked on some other time. The good reeds that were put back in a reed case are now ready to be worked on. Mineral oil is a natural preservative for wood. Clarinetists use mineral oil to swab the bores of their wood instruments. Take a drop of mineral oil and rub each reed completely making sure to cover all the edges. The oil keeps the interior of the reed lubricated and water resistant making them last 4 to 5 times longer. Next, place the reeds on a piece of flat glass. Allow enough time for the oil to soak into the fibers of the reed, which usually varies with each individually. Once the oil has vanished, dry each reed with a soft towel to take all the excess oil off. Put all reeds back in the reed case for protection. The reeds are ready for performance. The day of the performance put four good reeds in a container filled with distilled water for about an hour. Replace them back in the reed case just before leaving for the music hall. The reeds then will be moist enough for your playing-check procedure later at the performance area. Keep a 35 M.M film container filled with distilled water to moisten the reeds more fully if the room your playing in is dryer than expected. If the reeds are dry in the playing room place them in the film container about 5 minutes. Play all the reeds. If they perform to your satisfaction your problems are taken care of. When you have finished your performance dip the entire reed completely into another 35 M.M film container filled with a solution of 50-50% Hydrogen Peroxide and distilled water for a second or two. Immediately dry off the excess solution and replace the reed back into your reed case. This helps to keep the reed germ free while it is drying in the reed case. The bacteria in your mouth is the reason why reeds prematurely play bad after only a few performances. The reeds that were not playable that you placed in another reed case when you first soaked them in distilled water are now ready to be corrected. If the reeds are dry when you are ready to work on them soak them for 5 minutes in distilled water to make them more playable. Place the bad reeds in four categories, soft, hard, squeaks or chirps, and stuffy. Once each reed has been corrected rub a drop of mineral oil using the same procedure that was mentioned before. If a reed is too soft simply clip the reed very carefully a little at a time with a reed clipper. Keep clipping until the desired stiffness is achieved. The problems with soft reeds are usually solved with the clipping of them. For reeds that are too hard another method is required. The first thing to check on a reed is the way it lays on the mouthpiece. Sometimes soaking the reed will swell-up the fibers and create little air pockets on the bottom or under-side of it causing the reed to play hard. With the use of your curved tooth file lay the under-side of the reed on the file and scrape very gently forward and back three or four times. Make sure you go in the direction of the curve. Filing the under-side of the reed creates a more uniform fit over the mouthpiece by eliminating the air pockets that cause the hardness in the reed. Play the reed to see if it is now workable. If not, repeat the process one more time. Continuing to scrape the under-side of the reed more than one more time will cause the reed to become soft again making it almost impossible to repair. If the reed still does not want to respond after scraping take your reed knife and lightly cut a line beginning at the heart to the bottom of the reed. The cut through the middle of the reed breaks the outer bark. This makes the reed adhere to the mouthpiece more comfortably when the pressure of the ligature is applied. It also forces the reed to compensate for problems in the mouthpiece by stretching and tightening where those inadequacies occur. Play the reed to see if the cut corrects the hardness problem. Cut the reed in the same place a little deeper if the reed still does not respond. The next solution for a hard reed is to cut a line across the body of the reed, _ inch lower than the heart. Scrape the bark off between the cut and the heart making sure not to touch the heart. If you scrape so deeply that the fibers of the reed show, you have cut too far. Cutting so much bark off will make it impossible to fine-tune repairs on the reed because the wood has been scraped away. Once the wood is gone it cannot be glued back on the reed. The hard reed problem should be a thing of the past if all the above methods are carried out one by one. The sweaky or chirping reed solution has to do with the tip of the reed. Have the student place his mouthpiece in his mouth slightly to the left of center and play some notes in all the different registers. Have him place the mouthpiece in his mouth slightly to the right of center and play some notes in all the different registers. Have him figures out which side is harder to play on. The hard side should be scraped with a reed knife very carefully one gram at a time to match the softer side. A little scrape will go a long way when it comes to the tip of a reed. This will correct the sweaking or chirping sounds from your saxophone and clarinet students. A reed that is stuffy is usually that way because it was made unevenly. It most likely has not one thing but a number of things wrong with it. The problems could be a combination of all the above or be something entirely different. The best way to find out what the problem or problems are is to first check all the above individual problems to see if the stuffiness is with a reed that is soft, hard or sweaky. If it is one of those then you have to correct the soft, hard or sweaky problems first. Only then will it be necessary to continue on to the next solution that takes care of stuffiness. What exactly is the stuffiness problem? Come to a definite conclusion as to what notes and registers are giving you the most trouble. With a pencil divide the reed into four equal sections starting at the heart and proceeding upward. * section 1. Lowest note to a 5th above * section 2. half step above to its 5th * section. 3. half step above to its 5th * section 4. half step above to the harmonic range. For example, you have a student that has no problem with soft, hard or sweaky reeds but you hear a definite stuffiness problem in the middle register which is located in section 2 of the above chart. You really haven't discovered what exact note is stuffy yet, because you have just heard a passage played while you were rehearsing the band that contained one or all of the notes of section 2. Have the student play a chromatic scale very slowly (quarter note equals 40) starting on section 2 and go upwards to find out what note it is. Listen for any fluctuation of tonal quality. The note that sounds the stuffiest compared to all the other notes of that section should be worked on. Take the reed knife and gently scrape the left side of the reed located anywhere in section 2 making sure not to go in the middle and heart of the reed. Play the notes of section 2 very slowly to see if the problem has been corrected. If it hasn't, gently scrape the right side and play the note to see if it has been corrected. If it has, the problem is solved. The only consequence to the stuffiness solution is that once you correct one note another note in some other section might be affected. Any bad reed will play after scraping the under-side, cutting a slice from the heart to the bottom or fixing the tip for sweaks. These procedures are usually fast and easy to complete. Once you start getting into dividing the reed and scraping each section it becomes a real source of frustration to complete such a monumental task especially if you are on a time schedule. If after trying all these solutions for fixing reeds fail the only alternative is to discard the reed. Once a reed has gone through all of this and still does not play it is considered dead and cannot be repaired at some later date. Richard Corpolongo My personal preference on an ebonite mouthpiece is a Vandoren 3.5, and occasionally a V16. Vandoren V16s have a thicker tip which will be harder to play but give you a more aggressive tone. They are a subtle combination of American and French designs. Rico Royal are a very popular make and again are consistently good performers. LaVoz are a slightly more expensive variation, often thought to be similar in design to Ricos, and generally work very well. Rico and Bari also make some interesting plastic reeds, which are a completely different issue. It seems that in alt.music.saxophone the slant is usually on jazz. Standard Ricos remain the world's most popular, despite this! Rico Plasticovers are a standard Rico Royal design which is then coated with a strange black compound, effectively sealing the reed in a waterproof sheath. They are more resistant to breaking and will last a few months longer on average (depending on how often you play and the reed in question). They also have a fairly good tone, although inevitably they buzz a little, especially on a metal mouthpiece in my experience. Plasticovers are about twice as much (roughly) than a Rico cane reed. Bari plastic reeds have no cane in them, and are made reliably to a consistent specification. Although not necessarily worse than a cane sound, they are a different design completely. They usually last considerably longer than Plasticovers (many months), but cost about ten times as much as a standard reed. Try one if you think this might be a good option for you. Knowing that the reed is not at fault can encourage more rigorous embouchure control and lead to a better playing technique, if you need an excuse! :-) A wavy reed is lot lost forever! Soak it in warm water for ten minutes. Never play it when it's dry, as you'll finish it off for good. "It's all a matter of who you are, how you play, and what you want. I found commercial reeds so lacking that I ended up making my own from tube cane which I imported from France. They were the best reeds I ever played. They were also so time consuming that I learned to lower my expectations and play Vandorens, but I still was particular enough that it took an average of two boxes to find one good reed. Even then I put them through a several-week period of breaking in, adjusting, and getting used to. My studiomate just slapped on a Rico Royal and played. But nobody expected him to play what I played, nor could he. What I was doing required perfection at any dynamic level from low Bb to the highest altissimo D on soprano. I needed leaps of two octaves to pop out while double tongued at high tempos. I was playing 20th century flute and violin literature which I transcribed for soprano, and I would not settle for "that sounds good... for a saxophone." There are levels of certain styles of playing that are simply unattainable without similar levels of equipment quality. So... the kind of reed you use, the quality of it, and the subtlety of the nuances it is capable of are all dependent on what you plan to do with it and what your ideal sound is. Synthetic reeds are great for what they do. But if you want control over sound and color, response and range, then you'd better look further." - Shooshie@onramp.net "My very first saxophone instructor (Dick Harvey) is in on the manufacturing of these (correct spelling) Fibracell reeds. I have had input on the quality control of the product for the past two years. They are produced in a factory in San Marcos, California (just north of San Diego, next to my home town - Escondido). I am pleased with the strides that this company has taken to please instrumentalists like myself. I am pleased with the quality. The synthetic material (with kevlar) really does have a reedy feel, without compromising the tone quality. They are worth the price, and they do last! The only problem is that before you put up the bucks, make sure you know what size you want. I just talked with Dick the other day, and he said that they are working on a process for micro-sizing the reeds. I have found that what they call a medium soft (they do tend to run a bit stiff - but that should be fixed with micro-sizing) works well on my Sugal Gonz II copper on tenor. " - Miles Osland Mail order reeds: "U-Crest Music Center in Cheektowaga, N.Y. has always given me excellent service. I get reed orders in two days. They saved me hundreds of dollars on my horns. The number is 1-800-666-1268." "Rayburn music in Boston will take phone orders and send out via mail.phone# (617)266-4727. Hope this helps..." "Discount Reed Co. 24307 Magic Mountain Pkwy. #181 Valencia, CA 91355 1-800-428-5993 805-294-9437 fax 805-294-9762" "There is a company in Indiana called "The Woodwind & The Brasswind". You can call their 800 number and get the woodwind catalog. The number is 1-800-348-5003. I have ordered from them many times. They have a HUGE selection, and VERY good prices. I highly recommend it for people looking to mail order. Everything from instruments to slings, to reeds, etc. " A chart of reed strengths (thanks to Michel van Assendelft) Brandname Very Soft Medium Medium Hard Very Soft Soft Hard Hard Buffet Crampon (France) 1 2 3 4 5 Esser-Solo (G Steuer-Germany) 1 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.5 Glotin (France) 1 1.5-2 2.5-3 3.5-4 4.5-5 La Voz (Nova Corp, USA) 1.5 2 2.5 3 4 Omega (Selmer-France) 1.5 2 2.5 3 3.5 Oscil-Cane (Chedeville/Glotin) 1 2 3 4 5 Prestini (France/Italy) 1 1.5-2 2.5-3 3.5-4 4.5 Rico (Nova Corp, USA) 1 1.5 2 2.5-3 3.5-4 5 Vandoren (France) 1 1.5-2 2.5-3 3.5-4 4-5 (Aside: I'm not sure I agree with all of these ratings) Hemke, Plasticover and Symmetricut are rated as Ricos (being made by the same company!). Vandoren Java are rated as Rico Royals, while Vandoren V16 are half a strength harder. Dave Guardala reeds are half a strength harder than Ricos (usually). Here's a snatch from a discussion between BB Bean and me: First I toss aside the reeds that are assymetric (at the cut or the butt), and then I look at the opaque(ness, icity?) for an even transition from the thicker heart to the tip and rails. I feel the sides of the reeds and tip and try to find reeds that feel balanced. I also stick my thumbnail into the butt to check for hardness. I usually can get reeds that are 2/3 to 3/4 playable using this method, but not in my last adventure with Vandorens. bbbean@sheltonlink.com I do all this but I've never tested the heart with my nail. Just lately I've had a really good run. I've got three Vandoren 3.5s on the go which are _incredibly_ good. I mean outstanding. They are the best I've ever had. It's going to be horrible when they get broken or worn out. :-( Looking at them, though, the main characteristic which they all have is a very exact symmetry, especially in the tip, with a good, consistent tapering of the heart. The heart is central and doesn't bleed away into the sides of the reed at all. Also, there are no streaks or stray splinters of cane. The sides of the reed are lined up with the direction of the cane's 'grain', which is often not the case imho on Rico Royals. Also, having sanded these reeds a little, they are completely smooth. I can remember that at least one of them seemed unplayable when I first got it. The sanding helps enormously. I use a super-fine emery cloth, which is technically a metal sander, but because it has no harsh crystals on it like sand or glass-paper, it is perfect for reeds. Vandoren all the way for me. If you take the view that no reed will be perfect from the manufacturer, then it's just a matter of finding the best sort of 'blank' to work on. Vandoren are thicker in the tip and, provided you find their tone agreeable, they are easier to work on. I have a suspicion that Hemke may also be good but I've not persisted with these reeds much. Rico...well...they are a good reed. They are also a little limited. I don't quite know how. Perhaps I just dislike the sound. They give me the impression of super-mass production, whereas Vandoren do seem to be just a little bit more carefully made. For example, I once bought a Rico Royal 3 which was so splintered and coarse that it would never play (it was in a box of 10 - that's one argument against buying by the box) - hand selection would have helped a lot there. It's obviously cheaper to buy mail order, though, where you just can't do that. The one thing that irritates me intensely is being offered a box of reeds which is obviously just a collection of rejects from other boxes which have been sorted through in the shop. I never shop anywhere where this goes on. It makes financial sense, but it should also be made obvious from the outset. These boxes should be cheaper, if anything. I try to buy sealed boxes only. More advice, this time from Chris Neal: I sympathize with your reed troubles!! I am a believer that reeds, like mouthpiece selection, warm-up routine, etc. are largely a personal matter. What works for me won't necessarily work for you. However, here are a few comments which will hopefully contribute to a solution for you. 1. I prefer to soak my reeds in water, rather than in my mouth. Another poster mentioned the germ factor, which makes sense (so I may experiment with the vodka myself). But at the very least, remember that the function of saliva is to chemically alter foods you eat. My common sense (such as it is) tells me that this also happens to reeds. Frustrating as it is, degradation of the reed material is a force of nature. I simply try to minimize the amount of actual saliva which comes in contact with the reed. 2. The life of my reeds seems to follow a pretty predictable bell curve. I try to have a few reeds at varying stages of this curve--some early, some working really well, and some tapering off. It's a hard balance, but see #3 for how I help this. 3. My teacher and I used to go round and round about this. He felt that if I found a great reed, I should put it away and save it for an important performance--apparently this worked for him. I tried this, but the reed never played the same when I brought it back, even if I tried to do so gradually in the weeks before the performance. As a result, I treat my reeds more like most of the double reed players I know when I find a good one, I play it consistently until it dies. I believe that the natural warping in the wood caused by changing climate affects reeds even when they are tucked away somewhere. I have gotten the best consistency by playing good reeds for at least 20-30 minutes a day EVERY DAY. If I do this to 3-4 reeds a day, I have a pretty reliable arsenal at all times. 4. It seems like mouthpieces with thicker tip rails are a little more forgiving to subtle changes in my reeds. Have you experiment with different mouthpieces?? Sometimes mouthpieces I love for their responsiveness are REALLY hard to find reeds for. 5. The first place I work on a reed is actually the back, where the reed lays against the table of the mouthpiece. I use a soft lead pencil to draw 3-4 evenly spaced lines width-wise across the reed. Then I make 2 or 3 circular passes on fine grade sandpaper, sanding only the back of the butt. I do this with the sandpaper on a mirror or other flat surface and the reed on top of that. You can really see the warping by observing where the sanding erases the pencil markings. If you don't already do this, I urge you to experiment with #5. I have had good reeds go bad after a few days (like you said) only to see an equally remarkable turnaround once the reed can sit flat against the mouthpiece again. Chris Neal (cneal@vvm.com) ...and this from Graham Seale: You have just got to overdoing the reed dependency thing. Sure you can form preferences (java.. whatever) and you know when a reed has lost its "springy" or is too hard and needs a little careful rubbing. But to be spending so much parents $ probably means your technique is insufficiently flexible to allow you to coax good sounds out of a wider spread of reed conditions - or the mpc tip rail is the problem. I suspect it is probably the mouthpiece that is giving you grief, because I think it significant that this sensitivity to reed state happens only for your tenor, and not for the alto as well. Consider that your mouthpiece may need refacing , especially to have adequate side rails and tip. No kinks dents scrapes or rounding by burnishing from asymmetric reed slap. Although the rails curve in one plane, the section across must be absolutely straight. A very narrow tip rail gives projection with lots of harmonics and can deliver a buzzy tone effect that many folk like. The downside is that it is hard to control, delivers chirps and squeaks, and is very sensitive to reed condition and fit. A slightly wider tip rail will be much more forgiving, and enable you to start soft notes. Don't overdo the tip rail, or it starts to sound like a clarinet! Find a sax doctor who cares - and ask. Do the mouthpiece exercises. Unless you have a really touchy unforgiving reed-specific mpc, you should be able to make even an indifferent reed work for you for a while. Embouchure!! I consider it significant that you say you "can't practice without a good sound". It must be nice to have an automatic good sound so you can practice other stuff. Me - I still have to practice to get the good sound! Make reeds work for longer by soaking in warm clarinet bore oil. It is a high quality mineral oil that is absolutely tasteless. It does affect the sound a bit ,but you can compensate with embouchure technique. A little hard stuff vodka/gin/potcheen whatever in the bottom of the jar slows the reed structure biological breakdown. When you have been rubbing a reed, and have it at the right state of moisture/oilsoak then burnish the surfaces by rubbing lightly with the back of a spoon handle. It seals the grain and brings on a slight shine which is less absorbent. Graham@southlin.demon.co.uk Just to finish off this section on reeds, here is a long post from Shooshie on the subject. Good advice as always! "The time has come to talk about reeds. I've been asked several times to discuss this, and have procrastinated for good reason. This is a bad idea, trying to talk reeds without even so much as a picture, but I've never really exercised the best judgment on UseNET, so throwing caution to the wind, I proceed. At best, I can only put a general idea out there; at worst, I could really give you some wrong impressions, so feel free to ask questions: Rule Number 1: Every rule has exceptions. With reeds, the exceptions are the rule. That is the only rule I'll be making. Stick to it wisely. That said, let's move on to practical advice. Start at the butt, or heel of the reed. Look for symmetry. A reed which is thicker on one side than the other at the heel was cut out of a crooked piece of cane, or else split at an angle or sanded flat at an angle, and therefore will be harder on one side. Sometimes the backbone will actually run at a slight diagonal up the reed. This always spells trouble, usually in the form of squeaks. Often these reeds are buzzy and stiff, so that if you ever get the stiffness worked out of them, they buzz like paper. Reject them. Any reed of this sort which plays well is an exception, and most likely will quit playing the moment you need it most. The center of the heel should be in the neighborhood of half-again to double the thickness of the edges. If the arc is too curved, the backbone is going to be very thick. Too shallow and it will lack support. Middle thickness rules. The second check is to lay the reed flat on a piece of glass. You must check the table of the reed to see if it is flat. See if it rocks from side to side, like the bottom of a canoe. Some may actually have a concave table. Perfect flatness is ideal, but it won't stay flat when you begin playing it. More on this later. For now, if the reed has a tremendous arc in the table, reject it. If it is only a slight arc, go ahead and work with it for now. Note that this is not so much a defect in the reed as a response to the environment. If you live by the ocean, you will find most of your reeds to be flat or concave. If you live at high altitudes, cold climates, or deserts - (dry air) - they will be canoe shaped. This is something that takes a lot of learning, and I may not try to devote much time to it here. It even changes as you play. Now turn the reed so that you see a profile, heel to tip, along each rail (the side of a reed). From the heel to the shoulder - where the cut begins its wedge-shaped decline to the tip - the top and bottom of the rail should be parallel. If it's not, then again the reed was cut wrong from the tube cane, or the cane was crooked. More problems than you want to fool with, trust me. Just reject it. Of course... if it plays it plays. But it will probably have weird extreme registers, because the fibers will not run full-length from heel to tip. Symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals Next, check the shoulders. Just like your shoulders, they work best when they are located symmetrically, relative to each other. One shoulder should not be higher than the other, or thicker. This will also mean that the vamp - the scraped surface of the reed - must form a perfectly symmetrical arc from one shoulder to the other. If this arc slides off on one side or the other, then the reed is definitely imbalanced, and even the best reed-knife technique will be challenged to restore the balance. The shape of this arc is going to differ from manufacturer to manufacturer. A good reed maker will adjust that arc for each reed he makes, because it depends upon cane thickness, diameter of the original tube, strength, and other subjective factors as well. Manufacturers cannot do this, of course. Their machines attempt to scrape every piece of cane into the shape of their pattern. Since every piece of cane is as different as our faces, this is obviously impossible. It's potluck here. You'll have to figure out how to measure a number of things subjectively. I'd have to teach you personally over time, or at least show you some pictures, but I'll attempt a description or two. Hold the reed up to the light. Shield your eyes from the light so that the reed appears to be illuminated from within. Now mentally draw an X from the corners (at the tip) to the shoulders of the reed. Within that X, you should have four sections. The rear section is roughly the backbone of the reed, and should be fairly opaque. The right and left sides are areas in which it is permissible to scrape for adjustment, and should range from dark at the bottom to lighter at the tip. These must be symmetrical. Here's the problem in `eyeballing' it: strength does not always correlate exactly to brightness of the light. You can learn what to look for within that light - coarseness of grain, density of the tubules which are the vibrating core of the reed, and the patterns they make - but when you are learning this, brightness (how much light passes through) is about as good a test as any. Symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals If you choose to adjust these sides of the reed (within the X pattern's left and right sides), just be aware that any scraping you make must taper smoothly to the tip. No gouges. If you see a little dark spot and try to scrape it out, most likely you'll end up with a gouged area which will ruin your reed. When you scrape, remember that you are scraping a tapered incline plane. One stroke near the tip is worth ten strokes at the shoulder. (Not an actual proportion, just a figure of speech) The shoulder area is where you will need to work to loosen up pudgy low registers, although, again, it must be worked proportionally down to the tip. When you work on a reed in this way, it is balance you are trying to achieve. If you find yourself trying to change the strength of each reed, making them softer, chances are you just need to start with a softer reed to begin with. But strength and balance are easily confused. The difference is this: a balanced reed plays with a nice sound even if it's hard. It will have finer overtone structure, but may just be uncomfortable to blow if it is too hard, and may sound airy, even though it responds fairly well. A reed which may be "soft" enough but imbalanced will feel hard to blow because it doesn't want to respond to an attack, and certain registers will play better than others. Often certain notes will sound good but not others even nearby. Balancing it will bring out the good overtone structure and make all registers respond more evenly. Symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals Now, the area in the front triangle of the X represents several special areas. Let's imagine it as a slice of a pie stood on its point. It is the most transparent of the four sections of the reed There at the vertex (which was the center of our X) is what we call the heart of the reed. That area is sacred. Only those who have been knighted by the reed-gods are allowed to work in that area. But it's ok to mess around with it to see what happens if you want to learn and don't mind wasting reeds. Otherwise, how are you going to become a reed-god? You gotta learn, and experience is a great teacher. Along with a few thousand reeds. Too stiff a heart will make your attacks dull and airy. Too little heart will make your altissimo and high registers weak and flat. Of course, heart must be relative to tip, and we're going to talk about tip later, so keep the heart in mind, always comparing it relatively to other parts of the reed, but don't fret with it much for now. You'll figure out what to do as you learn. This is a long-term skill. You don't become an expert on reeds overnight. Even with the knowledge of what to do, your hands have to learn it. It's as if the embouchure and hands communicate, and the brain only gets in the way when you actually start scraping. This is a craft, an art, so don't rush it. Symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals Feel the corners of the tip of the reed, and the arc of the tip from corner to corner. In our pie shape, this would be the crust. Slightly touch them so that they bend and spring back at your touch. If you are sensitive to it, you will learn to feel when one corner is stronger than the other. This always leads to squeaks, stiff attacks, and sounds which are harmonically out of tune with themselves. The corners must be equal in elasticity. Fine, even grain is a good sign, but too much grain is a bad sign at the corners. The fully-formed tubules should fade from view about one to two millimeters from the tip. A trick which helps reed response, if you can learn to do it well, is to scrape the last one-half millimeter of the tip to a very thin incline. Rather than an abrupt square dropping off at a thickness of about .3 mm, taper it down to about .1 mm. It just catches the air better and helps transfer vibration into the vamp of the reed. I do this with a reed knife on glass, but others may have better luck with sandpaper rolled around a fingertip, or with dutch rush - an abrasive member of the fern family which grows around creeks. Looks like a corrugated straw about a quarter-inch (7 - 8mm) in diameter. Do not work on the area from the heart to the tip (the "pie" shape, excepting the crust - the extreme tip as described above) unless you are experimenting. It is usually counterproductive, since that area of the reed is the "patented" shape of each manufacturer's scrape, and since it is very sensitive to mistakes of imbalance. If the scrape in that area is not right for you, try a different kind of reed or make your own. Symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals Ok, that is a brief discussion of the scrape of the reed. Now for a serious problem that affects everyone, but which few people are aware of just how seriously it affects them: the table's flatness. If there is any leakage between the table of the reed and the table of the mouthpiece, that leakage forms the equivalent of a vent, like an octave key. It wants to make your tone break at a squeaky-high harmonic. One way to tell if you are getting a leak between the reed and the mouthpiece is to place your hand against the back of the mouthpiece (or the larger end of the saxophone neck with the mouthpiece on it) to seal it off, then form a suction in the mouthpiece, pulling it from your mouth and sealing it off with the reed as it goes. This should hold for at least a couple of seconds. If you can't get a suction, there's a leak. I find this test to be slightly damaging to the heart of the reed over time - it's not good to bite on it - and it can actually create a leak. So, I perform another test which kind of gets a `crowing' sound from the reed by sucking air through your horn (fully equipped with mouthpiece and reed). There's a certain sound it makes when everything is ok, and it cannot do it if there is a leak. This is a more benign test, and easier to perform, but more difficult to describe in print. If the reed is warped in a canoe-shape convex table, then you have some choices. You can sand it flat if the warpage is minor. Beware, though, because this weakens the overall reed. A better approach is to wet the reed and store it in a hermetically sealed container overnight, then take it out, play on it and work on it the next day, then repeat this each day for about two weeks. Before you play, soak the reed well with saliva from heel to tip and give it time to absorb it, rewetting it from time to time over a period of about three minutes. After about two weeks the reed's pores begin to seal off and the warpage becomes less pronounced. At this point, you can polish the table of the reed by placing the reed flat on a piece of paper on glass. Not sandpaper, but plain paper. Holding onto the reed with some downward pressure, slide it from side to side, quickly, as though you are sanding it. After a while, you can achieve a hard shine as the surface becomes glazed with heat and friction. This helps seal the table itself. I recommend two methods of storage. Smaller reeds store well on glass in those felt-lined wooden reed cases. Larger reeds are even more susceptible to weather changes, and I recommend a bottle of some sort with a sealed lid. I have a plastic bottle not much bigger than the reeds themselves. I put sponge in the bottom to protect the tip. As I put reeds into it (after playing), I may breathe a little air into it before putting the cap on. That puts the moisture of my breath in there for the reed to absorb. [note: if you leave this for a few days, it will be nicely covered with a furry mold. I've actually just scraped it off and continued using the reeds. Sometimes the mold actually fills the pores and prevents drastic warpage! But I'm not recommending it.] If you live in a relatively humid climate, this is not a problem you will have to deal with so much until you go on tour. When you tour the mountain or desert states, you'll be wishing you remembered what ol' Shooshie told you. As you play, the reed may dry out and warp on your mouthpiece, especially in the desert states. This is why I keep all sorts of reeds in the preparation stages, and finish them on site. A reed which is concave in Miami is going to be flat in Denver or Phoenix, but a reed which is convex in Miami will be unusable in Denver. Again, this is an art form, and many people develop their own methods. I'm just trying to make you aware of it. Younger players tend not to know about these things, and get bewildered especially when they travel and find that their lightning technique suddenly can't get off the ground when they change cities. It's an eye-opening experience, but you don't have to travel out of state to experience it. Go from a house with old-fashioned gas space heaters and into a building with central heat and you'll get the same effect, or from an air-conditioned practice room to an outdoor concert. Five pages. Too much. And I've really only scratched the surface. Let me tell you, reedmaking is the evil twin to all the technique which you work on daily in the practice room. Ignore it, and it will steal away all your ability and make you impotent just when you think you're a stud. If you are playing on a high-level, or aspire to it, then you're either an expert on reeds or soon will be - or else you'll soon shift careers. Oh yes, one last thing; did I mention that symmetry, proportion and balance are the goals?" Shooshie@onramp.net Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.5 Altissimo notes - fingerings The altissimo register is particularly popular in jazz circles. As each note that you play is already made up from other notes (giving your characteristic timbre) it should logically follow that with a little effort these notes can be separated out. In fact you can go further than this and play notes which normally a saxophone could not play (above top F#). The way to play altissimo is not easily taught but in general you need to have a much more supportive embouchure, and a controlled airstream. Experimenting will soon show you what is meant. When you can play one altissimo note, try the next. Remember that some will follow sequentially and need little adjustment, while others will need a completely new airstream to be playable - these will be a problem until you have learned how to predict the next note. Caveat: student instruments and closed mouthpieces will underachieve in this department. It may even be impossible to play altissimo notes on your instrument. If you can't get anything to work, don't give up too soon but do seek advice in the newsgroup. Remember that if you are a novice you will probably only spoil your enthusiasm for playing if you try this too early! :-) NB. Octave key depressed in each case, although it is in the essence of the altissimo register that you don't need to use it! These fingerings will need adjustment for the intonation of your instrument in many cases, but are valid for all saxes (expect the last two notes). Note Left Hand Right Hand F# Front F, C E side G Front F F side G# Front F E side A C, G F, E, D Bb G C side B D palm None C D palm, Eb palm None C# Front F F D D palm, Eb palm, F palm Bb side D# D palm, Eb palm, F palm E side, C side E D palm None F D palm, Eb palm, C E F# D palm, Eb palm Bb side G C F G# None None A D palm, C, G F, E, D Bb None Bb side D# BARITONE ONLY D palm, C, G F, E, D E BARITONE ONLY D palm, G F, E From Shooshie: "Now... let's talk about creating your own fingerings. Look closely at the fingerings you use and figure out what they are doing. Essentially they are creating a new octave overblown at a harmonic rather than the octave. They enable you to use that overblown harmonic with your key system for a span of a few steps at a time before having to overblow at the next harmonic and start the key fingerings over. One key generally acts as a vent (an octave key) to force the harmonic to sound, while the other keys give you some fingerings that connect chromatically. The best altissimo notes are those overblown at the lower harmonics. They will be firm and have tone, not just squeaky sounds. The higher harmonics are absent in lower overtones, and therefore have less body to distinguish them from the same note on a flute or clarinet (or reed squeak). So, with this knowledge in mind, you can make up your own altissimo fingerings so that you can connect chromatic fingerings and have true usage of your scales and arpeggios up there without jumping from one key system (at one harmonic) to another key system (at the another harmonic). Am I making sense to you? I never tried to put that into words before, but have used it for decades in creating my own fingerings. Most people have trouble with altissimo not because it's hard to produce, but because the fingerings are so awkward. And they ARE awkward when you are jumping from one harmonic to another with each note. Keep them connected under the same harmonic and you will have virtuosic control." Shooshie@onramp.net The following document is an appropriate supplement (or replacement) for the chart of fingerings I supplied above. Jack Laing's fingerings for the altissimo register differ because this register is such a pragmatic zone in sax playing. If you are having p roblems producing altissimo notes you will find these hints useful! There are numerous fingerings for altissimo notes some of which are more suitable for alto than tenor or are dependent on which make of sax you play. The main thing that helps in achieving the note is pre-hearing, in other words, knowing what the pitch of the note is before you go for it. Practice Shooshie's m/piece exercise so that you can apply it to the sax and try to lower notes within the normal range by up to a minor third. Try playing bottom C, middle C, top C then harmonic C (this is one of the easier harmonics to get). Then try bottom B, middle B, top B then harmonic B using the same fingering as harmonic C but bringing the note down a semitone by using your larynx. B altissimo is usually a difficult note to get so this makes it a b it easier. I usually do this when going for an Ab by using the A fingering and pitching it down as the Ab is usually an awkward one to get. Before trying to play altissimo notes it helps if you practice overtone exercises as follows (see David Liebman's b ook "Developing a Personal Sound"). Play middle Bb then finger bottom Bb and try to get the sound and pitch of middle Bb. With the same fingering try for the F above (top line of the stave). Now try F then slur to middle Bb then bottom Bb all with the bot tom Bb fingering. Next see if you can get top Bb then a D above that. This is more difficult but don't squeeze the reed up; alter your larynx as a singer would to get the note. Again, David Liebman's book and Shooshie's mouthpiece exercise notes are help ful. It is the harmonic series of Bb that you are trying to achieve without using any fingering but bottom Bb. Next try the same exercise using bottom B as the base note, then C then C#. Fingerings: Where a front key is to be pressed I will show a cross instead of a circle and a will show only those side keys that are to be used. Octave key on at all times. Notes are often better with the bottom Eb key depressed. F# AuxF AuxF AuxF AuxF O PalmEbO O X O O O PalmD X X O X X O sideBb side sideBb PalmF O O X Bb O O Ekey OF#key O X X X O F#key O O O O O X O O O O O O G AuxF AuxF AuxF O O O X X X X O O O O X O O F#key Bbkey F#key O O O X X X O O O O O O X O O O O O O O O O O O X O X O Ab AuxF O O X O X X O X X O X O O O X X SideC SideBb SideC SideC SideC X O X X O O O X X O X O O O O O O O O O EbKey Ebkey O X O O X O A O O O O O O X X X X Side Bb O X X X X G# X X X O O O X X O O O X O O O Bb O O O O O X O X PalmD PalmD SideC X X X X O O X X O O X X O O O O B O X O O O PalmD X PalmD SideC X X X O X O O X O O X O C X X X O O PalmF PalmEb O O O O O PalmD PalmD SideBb SideC X X X X O X O X O O O O O O O X X Ebkey O O X C# AuxF AuxF X O Palm O O X X O Palm Eb Eb O O Palm O O O X O Palm D D O X X X X X O E key E key O O O X O X O O O O O O X O O O O X Eb keyX O Ebkey O D AuxF AuxF AuxF AuxF O O O O O OPalmEbO O O O O X OPalmD O O SideC Ekey O X X Ekey O O OPalmF O O O O X O X O O O O X O O O O O X X O O Ebkey Eb O X X O X X X X SideC X X O O O X X O O X X O O Ebkey O O X (If you have a top F# key you can get an Eb by pressing all the palm keys( D,Eb,F) and the top E and F#) E X O O X X PalmEb O O X X O PalmD X SideC O SideBbOX X X O X O O X O X X O X O Ebkey X O O F X O X X O X jack.laing@onyxnet.co.uk Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.6 The Mouthpiece Exercise The following is a copy of the post which Shooshie (the founder of this famous exercise, I believe) posts from time to time. This exercise, in my opinion, is one of the finest ways to improve your tone you can try. It's not meant to be easy but if you can do it, you'll notice the results pretty quickly. Experienced players and newcomers should at least try this for a few days because it's not a common thing to come across by word of teachers and so on. It's worth the time. It's also the crux of several other methods, notably circular breathing and vibrato, which are covered elsewhere. Ok, there have been a couple of requests here, and a couple in email, so here goes again. This is pretty simple. It is not something that should ever become a source of anxiety. If you have an inflexible airstream right now, it may seem frustrating at first, but you will "discover" the methods through practice. While at first you may want to spend a little time on it fifteen or twenty minutes seems excessive to me, maybe ten would be more like it - from then on you probably don't need more than a couple of minutes of it as a warm-up exercise to get your bearings. The objective of this exercise is to put you in touch with the muscles which control your airstream and teach you the coordinated movements of them which enable absolute pitch and timbre control at any volume level (within reason), which I will call "velocity" from here on out, borrowing the MIDI term for attack rate. Velocity, then refers to the speed of the airstream, not the tempo of the music as in Czerny's exercises for piano. Along with the muscular coordination and control, we will need to learn a way to remember specific positions of those muscles so as to enable their quick recall when attempting to practice a difficult passage for consistent perfection. I use a phonetic system for this, since we each have learned phonetic systems since birth to enable us to perform the miraculous muscular acrobatics of speech. The tongue is a free-form muscle, and very few of us really have any idea what it's shape is at a given moment. I've seen people do fiber-optic cable photos and videos of the tongue so as to determine these shapes, but such studies have little practical applications for three reasons: 1) the people doing the study do not necessarily know which positions are "right" for airstreams. 2) the subjects being studied (saxophonists) may find it difficult to produce the proper positions with the apparatus in their mouths 3) even if the above two points are corrected for, a picture doesn't give us any connection with a physical means to produce the positions in the photographs. So in response to that last point, I searched for a means of locating and coordinating the airstream positions necessary to play the saxophone, and a means of describing and recalling them. The solution was extraordinarily simple. We have both right here in our mouths - the mouthpiece and our ability to speak. Here is the exercise, and following the exercise a description of the phonetic tools to help you recall certain positions, and then a discussion of how to apply the exercise to your other exercises and to playing (also, how NOT to). For first-timers: Holding only the mouthpiece (with reed and ligature mounted and fully ready for playing), play a sound, keeping your hands away from the back of the mouthpiece. This will all be controlled by voicing the airstream. Find a pitch that is comfortable and begin by attacking that pitch a few times with different velocities. Now that you have a feel for playing on the mouthpiece alone, try lowering the pitch. You may at first just imitate a slide whistle until you get some control over it. Immediately upon success of this little glissando down and back up you will be aware of at least two things: something is at work with your tongue and throat positions, and you have to support the sound with a lot of diaphragm pressure. No namby-pamby little toots; you will need long, broad lines of airstream sitting on top of a solid set of stomach muscles. (Later you will need to learn to do it with minimum effort, but we're just getting started.) Now that you're an expert slide-whistle-duck-calling mouthpiece tooter, it's time to control it and learn coordination. Play a comfortable pitch. The pitches will depend on the size of the mouthpiece: soprano: anywhere from a concert "A" to "C" alto: concert "A" tenor: concert "F"-"G" (some small chambered mp's may do well with "A") bari: I honestly don't remember. It's been 10 years since I sold my bari. Using the above determined pitch as your starting point, set your tuner to that pitch (playing an audible sound, not measuring your pitch) and begin playing a scale downward. Match each interval as closely as you can, listening for "beats" between your sound and your tuner's sound. (A synthesizer will do if you don't have a sound-producing tuner). Attempt to play an entire octave. As you get down to about a sixth below, your jaw position will change, and you will go to something like a subtone embouchure. These lower notes represent extreme flexibility and changes, but I think they serve a purpose. Don't feel lost if you can't get them, though; the real meat of this exercise can be had even if you only can play an interval of a fifth or sixth. Now that you have accomplished the scale, or at least the beginnings of it, let's move on to the real stuff - the part that gives you control over some coordination: dynamic control. Begin your scale again. At a tempo of approximately quarter note = 126, make each note 8 beats long (or longer if you like). Begin each pitch rather forcefully, being considerate of your neighbors, though, and again match the pitch to your fixed pitch reference tone. Now decrescendo to PPP over four beats and then crescendo back up to your starting velocity over the next four beats. Keep the pitch constant. Then repeat it for each note of your scale, always keeping focused on the pitch. Consistent pitch is the key to this exercise. Ok, that's it. Now you've done it. Do this exercise as a warm-up on a daily basis, before you do your harmonic (overtone) exercises. Ok, now that you have learned to play scales (and a few of you have probably even been playing tunes) on your mouthpiece alone, what can you do with it besides surprise your friends with a mouthpiece serenade? Plenty. If you have mastered the velocity/pitch control, then you have accomplished a lot. You already found out that as the velocity of the airstream diminishes, the pitch goes up, and vice-versa. You learned that you could control it, though, without necessarily even having to know what you were doing. It's just a natural and intuitive act of compensation. You also learned that tightness and reliance upon jaw pressure alone (biting) is the enemy of airstream control, and yet it is very much a part of the overall act. Learning to coordinate these actions is what makes you a virtuoso. Now at this point, I could launch into a lengthy dissertation of exactly what is happening in your mouth, and give you exact descriptions of tongue positions, and thus-and-so, and do this and don't do that, and if it's not precisely my way then it's not right, and blah, blah, blah. But I won't, and for good reason, too. I don't really know. Well... I kinda know after all these years, but it's really not important, and I sure wouldn't want anyone out there going around saying "Shooshie says it has to be this way," and starting a whole new "school of thought." Schools of thought are good ways to lock you up and inhibit your ability to learn. As soon as someone points a school of thought at you, get ready to run or be shackled. Not that what they tell you may necessarily be wrong, but simply because they're liable to say it's the only way. "School" in this sense translates into something like a "cult." So, instead of telling you what's what, I'd rather tell you how to use this to find what works for you. That is, I'd rather give you some tools than to tell you what to build with them. So here goes: What is it that enables you to change pitch on the mouthpiece alone? Is it "lipping down"? No. I can bite the reed nearly shut and still do the scale. Your lips are involved, and must be supported with muscle, but it would be wrong to say that we are lipping down. Are we opening our throats or closing them? Maybe. It's not so important to know this, since whatever it is happens automatically in order to successfully do the exercise. But one thing is for sure. The tongue and other things do move as you get softer or louder or change notes or correct the pitch, just as they do on the horn, and they do so in a coordinated "dance" just as they do on the horn. This range of motion, whatever it is, and the positions of things in your mouth and throat are all important in finding what will work for a given musical circumstance. For instance, you are playing in the lower middle register and have a quick leap into the altissimo and back. You can play the altissimo note fine by itself. You can play the middle register fine by itself. But putting the two together you always squeak, squawk, and get all tense. How can you nail it as if nothing happened? Simple. Remember the positions of each one. Reduce the changes between those positions to the very barest minimum necessary to accomplish it. It is much less of a change than you might imagine if you are playing correctly to begin with. Now comes our trick. Determine the phonetic positions of your mouth for those two different ranges on the instrument at the volume you want them to happen. Now put them together. It's as simple as saying a phrase like "any ann." Notice what happens when you say "any ann." Your tongue locks quickly into two different positions and back. It is not difficult at all, but it produces completely different sounds. That is how simple it should be on sax. But you may be like a baby when it comes to speaking on the sax. It takes a little time to learn, therefore you should practice things slowly until you get the hang of it. Soon you will be talking full speed. Back to the mouthpiece exercise. As you play the scale, determine the phonetic positions for each pitch and volume. Notice that you will be addressing three parts of the tongue - at least that's how I've divided it up: Back, Middle, and Tip. The back of your tongue stays the same pretty much all the time. You've heard some people say that you keep your throat open, while others say that you close it down. Some will talk about warm air or cold air, fast air or slow air. There is a great deal of confusion about this, and nobody seems to agree. There's good reason for that. Nobody really knows what's going on back there. But you do know, even if you can't put it into words, because you've done the mouthpiece exercise. Rather than speculate on all these dichotomies, let's focus on practicality. In order to successfully render the mouthpiece exercise, the back of the tongue is in a position to create the sound of "K" at moment's notice. It doesn't actually create that K, but it's close. It's kind of in between a "K" and a hard "G" (as in "gate"). You could articulate a sound with this position. This is very handy, since when we begin double tonguing, our tongues will already know how to do it. The position is a bit stretched for either of those consonant sounds, but we are going to use "K" or "G" to describe the position, since they are pretty close. Remember, we're using the letters to describe something we actually are doing. We're not trying to make what we are doing match the letters as we would normally speak them. The mouthpiece exercise is the authority to whom we turn in order to tell us the proper positionings. We just apply the phonetic symbols as tools to help us remember those positions. Now... let's skip the middle of the tongue and come back to it later. Let's look at the tip of the tongue. It seems to function as a focal point for the airstream before it enters the mouthpiece. When it is focused, it adopts a kind of pointy shape somewhere between English "R" and "L". It is able, at moment's notice, to pop up to the reed and make a "T" or "D" shape which can be very handy for single tonguing. (Gee... it's just amazing how all this is working out, isn't it?) :-) Again, remember that you take what works (from the mouthpiece exercise) and use the phonetic symbols to describe them, not vice versa. OK. For the middle of the tongue, we have our vowel sounds. The whole range of them. You can feel them for yourself as you do the mouthpiece exercise. Play a pitch and freeze into that position. Remove the mouthpiece and vocalize whatever comes out without moving from that position. There's your phonetic position for that pitch. You can even write it down! At least you can write an approximation that has meaning for you. That helps greatly when you're trying to remember how to make that two-octave altissimo leap on a sixteenth note. One other important position to note is the sides of the tongue. When correctly in place, the "rails" of the tongue slide forward and backward between a pair or two of the upper molars. It's not a big slide, but just enough. This helps create an actual chamber for the air to travel through. In doing all these different things with the tongue, we have created a space to act as a resonating chamber to help reinforce the desired overtones and pitches which emerge from that other resonating chamber... known as a saxophone. Put the two chambers back to back and you get harmonic reinforcement. Your resonating chamber can also act as a detriment to the sound by not reinforcing the harmonics of the tone you are trying to produce. On the mouthpiece alone, this will cause squeaks, grunts, or just a locked-in high pitch which you cannot control. The shaping of this chamber is very subtle, but ultra-important. Without it, you could not do overtones, altissimo, or pitch correction. You would have trouble tonguing some registers of the horn. You'd have trouble with large-interval leaps at speed. Sound familiar? Then you've probably been needing to do this for a while! Let's review our phonetic positions. If you put together our back, middle, and front positions, you get something like [K(G)] + [a,o,u,e,i] + [R(L)]. You won't mind if I simplify a particular position to something like [KAR]. Or how about [KIR]? We know that the K is not a real K, and that the R is really more of an L. We're just using these symbols as shorthand for what we want to remember. Now you have a tool to help you recall specific airstreams, and you have a reference exercise - the mouthpiece - to coordinate those airstreams into dynamic, practical usage. Next, you will want to apply the same airstream positions to your harmonic (overtone) exercises. Simply do the same thing. Play each harmonic on your horn and change velocities. Crescendo and decrescendo (or vice versa), noting the changes. Work on getting the timbres to match the sound you desire. Note the phonetic positions. Now play the regular fingerings. Apply the same phonetic positions. You may have to compensate, but very little. You're ready to use these exercises, now. Applying them to your actual playing, you should notice improvement and greater control in your pitch and pitch correction after an attack, vibrato (shape, speed, depth, flexibility and consistency) dynamic control (and its relation to pitch), tonguing, double tonguing, timbral consistency, altissimo, and general playing in all registers. Anywhere that you find problems you will be prepared to isolate those problems and work them out with your new-found tools. In each case, you will: 1) figure out exactly where the problem lies 2) play individually the notes giving you the problems 3) determine the ideal position for each note 4) note the phonetic positions and their changes between notes 5) practice for the minimum change between them 6) make the change as fluid as speaking 7) apply it to the music and increase the tempo until perfected Now, we're talking a lot about changes. Haven't we all been drilled with the idea that nothing changes? That we're supposed to play everything in one position? What about Daniel Deffayet (and others) who delight in public demonstrations in which they have a student blow the horn while the clinician stands behind them fingering the horns? It's amazing to see that the student really CAN play the music if someone else is doing the fingerings. That's because the student cannot predict a change and respond to it in their (bad) habitual ways. What gets demonstrated is that students typically change the wrong things, and change them too much. I can also do Deffayet's trick, but if someone does it for me, I can foil them by not changing anything. Just try playing a low Bb and freezing in that position and playing and altissimo G, or a high F. It won't come out most of the time. The secret is the three parts of the tongue. The back and the tip do not change. This is where we get the idea that nothing changes. But that idea is not entirely right: the middle changes. The demonstration trick is possible because if the back and tip do not change, nearly any note is possible with the middle of the tongue in a neutral position. In fact, some of the correct changing will happen naturally. But control over the precise pitch and velocity present a whole set of problems not demonstrated by this public exhibition. This new set of problems is pretty much completely addressed by the mouthpiece exercise when applied to harmonic exercises and altissimo studies, and then applied to music in general. So what it all boils down to, once you've established all the right positions, is that a little portion of your tongue - the same part that makes all your vowel sounds - is of utmost importance in aiding your flexibility on the instrument. It determines your pitch, timbre, and harmonic reinforcement of the sound. And it's as natural as speaking or whistling. In fact, you might think of this whole thing as "whistling while you work." The same stuff applies to flute, clarinet, and all other woodwinds, as well. In each case, the feel is dramatically different, but the principles are the same. The changes on flute are ultra-tiny, but even of more importance since you cannot lean on octave keys to do part of your work for you. On clarinet the air column overblows at a twelfth, so the feel is again very different, but it's there. Oboe is like flute - very subtle. I can't report on bassoon, since I never played one outside of a woodwinds class. But the same principles apply to brass instruments as well. In fact, you couldn't play brass instruments without these principles. In closing, let me reinforce the fact that these tools enable you to find what works for you. Maybe your sound ideal and mouthpiece and the shape of your mouth, not to mention your colloquial speaking accent (Brooklyn comes to mind), all require that you do something way different from what I do. But still we use the same tools to find them and apply them." Shooshie@onramp.net Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.7 Special effects - growling, vibrato, slurs Special effects are a favorite of mine but may ultimately make you want your old, pure style back for good. So make sure these don't spoil your sax life (oh dear...!) ;) Two effects I refer to specifically are growling, and slurring notes. Growling, as used in rock and roll quite frequently, involves getting your sax to play a combination of notes together to produce an oscillating, `gritty' sound. There are two ways to do this, humming and key work. I have never really had much success using the keys to play undefined notes and hope for the best - I suspect this is as much my fault as anything as it's not easy to remember another set of fingerings. One such fingering you may like to experiment with is playing a low C, and then releasing your right hand F key. The resulting multiphonic can be extended into all sorts of other notes, if you carefully plan your fingerings. The easy way is to hum into the mouthpiece as you play. This is quite a strange feeling and may not prove simple to master, but a few weeks will usually be sufficient to get the growl in at will. Choosing your hum is very important. If you play an A, try humming a D, or generally a 5th or 3rd. The resulting growl will be much more effective than if you just hum any note. The tendency will be to hum the same note you're playing! You'll get no growl if you do this... Slurring notes is not too difficult, but will not be easy if your embouchure is untrained (beginners) or too much jaw pressure is being used. These two evils should be the first thing to look at if you're having problems sustaining notes or are damaging your lip, incidentally. To slur a note, you may like to start with a middle C. Now, gradually, let your lower lip apply less pressure on the reed until the note begins to drop. You can keep slurring down a full semitone, if you try carefully enough and release your jaw in the correct way (while keeping your airstream going). Then, tighten your lip again to sharpen the note and get your C back. Practise! It's harder on the lower notes, and easiest in the middle register. You will need to supply more air at the bottom of the slur. Using this technique it is possible to play a low A on any Bb instrument! Vibrato is a useful technique. This is a rapid flatten/sharpen sequence, producing an oscillating note. If you can master slurs, then vibrato is the next important effect. A point worth remembering is that when you're on stage or using a microphone, you need more vibrato for the audience to get your tone. Vibrato does, of course have one problem: you are oscillating your pitch lower and then normal, lower and then normal. The net result is a flat note. Ideally, you need to be able to sharpen your note as well as flatten it. This is a feat which can be achieved (allegedly!) with the following method: Using a metronome and working out vibrato speeds, evenness, and so forth is very helpful for learning vibrato, but what you have described above is a prescription for pitch problems. It makes you flat. Never mind that it is the method most people use. I don't think it is David Sanborn's method, though, or anyone else who sounds pretty much on pitch even when using vibrato. Here's the problem. You are starting with a pitch in tune, and when you want to get expressive (with vibrato) you make it go flat. Graphically, your vibrato would look something like this: [Image] (Pitches obviously would vary a lot from player to player, and depending on how wide a vibrato you were attempting to use. This one is pretty wide, but illustrates my point.) For a vibrato to sound really nice, it must not create the effect that the pitch has gone flat. Unfortunately, that is exactly what you hear in most players, especially legit or classical players. It can be very annoying when overdone. Here is a more ideal vibrato: [Image] [note the change in the pitch range] It cannot be done if you play on the high side of the pitch. By that, I mean if you already have your pitch compressed upward so that "lipping up" the pitch is difficult in a tasteful way throughout the range of your horn, then you will not be able to do this kind of vibrato. Instead, you'll get a chopped sound where the sound chokes on every upstroke of the pitch. In order to play this sort of vibrato, you must center your pitch at the more natural level of the instrument, lower. That means you might be pushing in your mouthpiece a little bit. Many student saxophones make this undesirable, as they are designed to play with a pinched embouchure with the mouthpiece further out to compensate. The Selmer Mark VI is a good instrument for the proper kind of technique (and by no means is it the only horn), although it can be applied successfully to any instrument with some work. This gets very tedious, I know, which is one reason I've never posted on it before. Consider this information as something on the virtuosic end of saxophone technique, and don't fret too much about it if you can't or don't feel like pursuing it at this time. But if you want perfection in your control of vibrato and pitch, this is the path. That said, let's continue. In order to do this consistently throughout your instrument's range, you must first be able to comfortably vary the pitch upward on the flattest note on your instrument, which is often a low D, low G, or somewhere in the lower half-octave of your horn. This means the mouthpiece must be pushed in enough to allow for it. But it's not quite that simple. If you play a hard reed, pushing your mouthpiece in will only make you play extremely sharp. We're talking about a whole new concept of playing for some people; one where the pitch is actually centered in a much more relaxed position. Holding it stable requires - I repeat, requires - controlling the instrument through the airstream more than the embouchure. This means you'll be playing the sax more like the flute. Incidentally, the same airstream control works on all wind instruments, making doubling a lot easier. If you resort to the upward pressure you may have used before, you'll just go sharp all the time. Nobody wants to play with someone who just blows sharp, so you'll pull out your mouthpiece again, and then you'll be right back where you started with the "flat vibrato." So, if you're not prepared to go the whole distance, don't bother to try this at home! Now, I know it's looking pretty grim at this point, but do you think I'd lead you into the dark woods without a path to get you out of it? Of course not! And if you've read my posts in the past, you know what I'm going to say next: Mouthpiece Exercise. This is where it really fulfils its promise. Now let me repeat, in case you missed it above: If you play a hard reed, this will be difficult for you. I play a reed that must be very balanced, free-blowing, but with some resistance. Not hard, though. I've always used Vandoren Mediums, but I might go through several boxes of them to find one that is worth working with. Then it takes a lot of patience and reedwork to get it consistent. Note that by no means is the reed "soft." Never. Like Goldilocks preferences, it has to be "just right." Once committed to doing this, and with the proper reed/mouthpiece setup, commence perfecting your airstream with the mouthpiece exercise. I won't repeat that here. But obviously, it is a major chunk of what we're doing. Now... when you've gone through the mouthpiece exercise, the harmonic exercises, and are ready to work on long tones with vibrato, get ready to use a tuner. Slowly vary your pitch as per the ASCII diagram above and learn to do it in rhythm. Work so that every note has even vibrato. Your lower notes will change more in actual pitch than your higher ones. Altissimo vibrato is almost more of a suggestion than a real change of pitch. It is especially important that you learn that five vibrations per second difference in one octave is equal to 2 [[Omega]] vibrations per second change in the next octave up in order to keep the proportion the same. That means that your low D vibrato, applied to your high D would sound like a screaming nanny goat. See what I mean? It's tedious at first. You'll need models, so listen to flutists, cellists, and violinists. Soon you can branch off and listen to the jazz and pop players, but I recommend starting with some classical challenges for immediate perfection. This is not a comment about perfection or lack of it in jazz. Classical vibrato offers the regularity we want for training muscles at this time. I recommend listening to a variety of players, but don't miss James Galway on the flute. He has pretty much revolutionized wind playing over the past 20 years. The rest is up to you. Do the studies with the metronome at first, in 4's, 6's, and 8's. Keep your vibrato narrow and tasteful until you are in control enough to make it do what you want. Learn to apply it at different rates, varying the rate, and at different widths. Learn specially to taper it to straight tone at will, or vice versa. Listen to your favorite artists. Remember that from here on out you will never be able to play a note without considering the pitch and vibrato (or straight tone) as essential elements of your expression at that point in the phrase. Pitch isn't something you tend to when tuning your horn. It's part of your sound. Vibrato is merely the manipulation of pitch. That's pretty much it for now. There's no way that this short explanation can cover the intricacies of everything, but if you are intuitive, it will give you some direction." One last note on fingerings for sax. Your instrument will sound out of tune in some registers but there is something you can do to change this. The palm D key for example will not be right in the middle register. This is so on all saxes. There are ways to correct the intonation, by adding other keys or finding other ways to play the notes. For example, a palm Eb key can be flattened at the embouchure to sound like a D (don't play the D key). Similarly, you can get a high E by playing a palm F key only. These are not accepted fingerings but the idea is fine: experiment. Saxes are versatile! (e.g. finger C, add a D palm key - it will be quite close enough to use as a trill from D to C...play low C, release the D key for an octave A... middle D can be played in passing using the palm D key. Traditionalists would frown, but it really helps sometimes...) "In soft passages it is also possible to use alternate fingerings for a few more pitches. Add the RH E lever to the palm key E-flat and you get D-sharp. Add the F palm key to that combination and you go up another half step to E. On some saxes you go once again up to F by adding the high F-sharp key. I wouldn't use this technique except for trills or very soft passages and as Ben said, a little work on voicing is necessary." Graham Seale suggests a few ways of playing a low A note on a standard Bb instrument: It all started when I read about how it was possible (with alto) to get a low A thus:- 1. Be sitting down and doing the playing. 2. Comes time to do the low A, get the left leg up (K. Everett style!) 3. Place side of knee near bell of horn as you hit E. 4. Move onto C.. then as you finger Bb, put the leg over the bell using behind the knee joint, and work hard on the embouchure. If not playing seriously, Bb flattening to A can be tested by moving leg across at the same time as going for the lowest note Shooshie type embouchure control. Now all this seemed a bit inconvenient, and ah.. could be interesting if attempted with a tenor. The same effect can be achieved by approaching a person of appropriate height er.. from behind! In general, that method is only good for one note per person approached. So finally we contrive a workable artificial low stop. The antinode of the standing wave of low Bb can be encouraged to move up out of the bell a bit by putting the edge of the bell up against a vertical hard corner, a little way from a "top stop". The m ost convenient is to stand two crates/gig speakers/whatever slightly staggered to produce a vertical "corner. Then the "top stop" is a book/LP cover etc placed so as to "overhang", providing the third face of a point corner. You find the right place by ex periment - but once you know how, you would be surprised at the number of viable variants that will occur to you. My alto will not make low A without the "corner trick". I think, with a little trying on embouchure and airstream control, it might be possible to just do it without any special aids. graham@southlin.demon.co.uk Occasionally the question of alternative fingerings which are not the `cheating' sort are discussed in the newsgroup. For example, there are five ways to finger Bb, but these are all more or less appropriate depending on the passage. It's wrong to choose just one Bb fingering and stick to it. This can make playing certain passages more difficult. Even if you're a good, competent player, your method will be improved by the use of the correct alternative fingering at the right moment. Here's a helpful post pointing out the pluses and minuses of the `biz' (i.e. B key plus the small Bb key) and the other Bb fingerings. "I recommend the biz fingering (covering both the B key and the biz key with one finger-1) unless going down chromatically (use side or biz) or trilling (use side). Many jazz dudes use the biz. It corresponds nicely with the middle (call it the middle finger) fingering for C (when playing either the C scale or the F scale, many jazz dudes use the middle-finger fingering for C, with 1 used for either the B or Bb biz), and the 1-biz Bb fingering also corresponds as the easiest and most accurate (for execution) when playing arpeggiated or pentatonic runs involving Bb (1 finger-one hand is easier vs. 2 hands for the side fingering e.g. G# A# C# D# F G# or G Bb C# E G). I believe that the biz key was intended to be used with the #1 finger (covering both B and biz), especially when you note the close proximity of the biz key to the B key. I was a side Bb and side C player for a while until realizing that the biz was the easier (and getting the advice of Eric Kloss). It took me less than 2 weeks (the 1st couple of practice sessions were tough, I admit) to convert to becoming a biz (almost exclusively) player and I regret to this day ever starting out as a mainly side Bb/C player. The side Bb/C guys can argue against this because they can't get used to going from the 1-Bb or B fingering to the middle-finger C fingering (thus not using any side keys which means you may have to relearn how you play the Cmajor scale), but once you incorporate pentatonics/triads/minor thirds and many other arppegiated combinations and permutations involving C, you find yourself using the middle-finger fingering for C a lot anyway and to me, for improv and for the purposes of assimilating a standard "feel" for a given key signature (such as the key of C for ironic starters) I wanted to have a unitized fingering for all of the key signatures (what I mean here is that I didn't want to be improvising in the key of C say, or any key for that matter, and be using 2 different fingerings for C at anything remotely close to a 50% ratio ....even 80%/20% is too differentiated), thus my abandonment of the side C key except for trill options. That gave me a very limited need to use side C and I've never looked back... I'm comfortable using the side C option when needed and it's handy at times, but I'm glad to have converted to biz Bb and middle-finger C for the vast majority of my playing. BTW, I watched Phil Woods for 2 hours from 5 feet away at a concert in college, and aside from being awestruck at the man's BAAAADNESS the guy used the biz Bb approach almost exclusively. When going up from Bb to B he just slid his #1 finger off the biz key, which seemed to me at the time to be a more efficient thing than having to release both the 2 finger and the side key to get to B. That prompted my starting to question the side Bb/C approach." Laren_Addabbo@colpal.com Back to Index This page created and modified hourly or monthly by Bob R. Kenyon ©1996 [rec.music.makers.saxophone] 2.8 Mouthpieces and tip openings The mouthpiece is one of the most important components of your saxophone. It always surprises me that some of the best saxes in the world are still shipped with cheap mouthpieces. Your mouthpiece is the root of all the tone of your saxophone and needs to be carefully matched to your own embouchure and reed. The reed that works for one person on their mouthpiece may be useless for you. You need to experiment with different hardnesses of reed and different tip openings to get a good tone. A wider tip opening (i.e. the gap between the tip of the reed and the end of the mouthpiece) is measured in all sorts of different ways by different manufacturers, which is summarised in the following tables. Generally, thousandths of inches or a 6* rating system is usual. Soprano 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 105 Bari .60 .64 .68 .72 Ebonite .58 .62 .66 .70 .74 Beechler 4 5 6 7 8 Berg Larsen 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 Dukoff D4 D5 D6 D7 D8 D9 D10 Guy Hawkins 4-5 6 7 Meyer 5 6-7 8-9 10 Otto Link 5 5* 6 6* 7 7* 8 8* 9 RIA 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Rousseau 2R, 3R 4R 5R 6R 7R 8R Runyon 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Selmer C*, D/E F/G H I C** Vandoren S15 S25 S35 Wolf Tayne 4 5 6 7 Yanagisawa 5 6 7 8 9 Alto 60 62 65